Lauren Ambrose, Liv Hewson Interview

[This story contains MAJOR spoilers from the penultimate episdoe of season three of Yellowjackets, “How the Story Ends.”]

The Yellowjackets are once again saying goodbye to one of their own.

“It’s sort of like a last-in-first-out kind of thing, also with Lottie[‘s death and Simone Kessell],” says Lauren Ambrose when speaking to The Hollywood Reporter about her tragic ending in the penultimate episode of season three, “How the Story Ends.”

Yes, Adult Van’s story ends this episode. It’s an all-too-soon development for the beloved character who will be remembered by those who loved her for both her inherent goodness and for her self-sacrificial way out — to save the love of her life, Taissa (played by Tawny Cypress in present day and Jasmin Savoy Brown in the past). The episode began with a vision of younger Van visiting Adult Van while she’s near death from cancer in the hospital. Teen Van invoked the classic adventure film The Goonies to inspire Adult Van to keep fighting, and it’s a key scene that came as a request from the actors.

Liv Hewson, in the joint conversation below, tells THR the hospital scene came out of conversations between Hewson and Ambrose after they found out about and began to digest Van’s fate. “We thought it would be meaningful for Van and selfishly, we just wanted to work together,” says Hewson. So they pitched the idea to their showrunners. The pair get another reunion scene at the episode. “I felt a personal grief in saying goodbye to Van in the present,” adds Hewson.

In the episode, Adult Van finds the strength to leave the hospital and join her fellow Yellowjackets to defend themselves against Adult Melissa (played by guest star Hilary Swank), their former teammate who they had believed to be dead. After a bloody and fleshy faceoff between Melissa and Adult Shauna (Melanie Lynskey) — Shauna forces Melissa to eat a piece of her arm this episode — the argument between the former flames escalates until Van finds Shauna, Misty (Christina Ricci) and Taissa (Cypress) unconscious from a carbon monoxide leak in Melissa’s house. Van manages to save her friends and when she heads back into the house to kill Melissa, she’s stopped by that inherent goodness. Van can’t thrust a knife into Melissa’s heart, even when she believes another sacrifice to the wilderness could buy her more time among the living. But when Van hesitates, Melissa’s beliefs from the past are triggered and she claims the sacrifice; Melissa stabs Van to death in the heart, and flees.

The episode, directed by returning Yellowjackets helmer Ben Semanoff and written by Sarah L. Thompson, ends with Ambrose’s Van confronting Hewson’s Van on a plane that viewers saw after the death of another main castmember when Adult Nat (played by departed star Juliette Lewis) was killed off in the season two finale. Van’s plane is slightly different, with a pop-culture flair, and this time, young Van and old Van watch the movie of her death on a projection screen and ponder what comes next. “There is a real intentional ambiguity in the final exchange that we have with each other,” Hewson explains.

Below, in a joint conversation with THR, Ambrose and Hewson, the latter who uses they/them pronouns, open up about their struggles around Van’s fate and feeling like the guardians of their beloved character, while also going behind the scenes to reveal the scenes they requested and the work they put in to make sure Van’s death would feel earned in the end. They also talk about filming Van’s final scenes and how Ambrose plans to now give Van, who has been living on borrowed time, back to Liv.

“We’re in so little control of it,” Ambrose says of the story Yellowjackets is telling, “but we know we told our part of the story as well as we could, and we brought our fullest selves. That’s my treasure that I leave with and that’s why I do this work, and why it’s satisfying to have been a part of it.”

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I’m very sad to be speaking with you two, but thank you for doing this together. I’m sure this is emotional for you both.

LAUREN AMBROSE I hope it’s sad. We worked hard to make it very sad.

LIV HEWSON That’s true. We did.

AMBROSE This is such a special character that Liv created. I got to come on and continue good old Van into her adult years and her eventual end. I work in the theater and, you never know exactly what’s going to happen with a TV show, but with this character, we know how the curtain closes. When I’m on stage, I have a little more control over that. I know what you see from when the curtain goes up to when the curtain goes down. So I feel satisfied that Liv and I told the story to when the curtain does go down on Van. And now, I hand it back to Liv to fill out.

HEWSON It’s been such a special journey to walk Van through into adulthood and then get to tell this part of the story with Lauren, to get to do it together was so special. I hope it’s special to the audience as well. Obviously, it is incredibly emotional and incredibly sad, but as Lauren says, there is real satisfaction in the work that we did together on bringing this character to life and saying goodbye to her in this way.

AMBROSE Also, we got to actually work together, which was surely one of the things you want to talk to us about.

Yes, I want you both to tell me what’s coming for all of us on that plane… But to go back, Liv and I spoke at the beginning of the season and you told me there were some lines cut from Van’s opening monologue in the wilderness. Was anything cut that would have tipped viewers that Van’s death was coming? Because I didn’t see it coming.

AMBROSE You didn’t?

No. Not Van!

HEWSON From that monologue, I don’t think anything was caught that would have flagged this. But it’s interesting that you say you didn’t see it coming, because I do think there’s a really fascinating dynamic at play with Van and death, which I talked to the showruners [Ashley Lyle, Bart Nickerson and Jonathan Lisco] about while we were working on this season. Van’s relationship to death is so specific, sort of through a meta accident, right? The decision not to kill Van early on [in season one by the showrunners] created a really specific dynamic where Van then almost died but didn’t die a bunch of times, and that wasn’t lost on me. For Van to die, thematically, I felt we needed to be saying something about that relationship. That her relationship to death is unique. So the circumstances of her death, I think, needed to be unique as well.

AMBROSE I mean, I get why they [they wrote her death]. It’s like this ultimate survivor surviving an abusive household and alcoholic parent, surviving the plane crash, the wolves and on and on. And then maybe surviving cancer or not surviving cancer, and then dying in a way where she’s sacrificing herself, I guess was the idea!

That borrowed time meta aspect tricked me into thinking Van wouldn’t die. Liv, you came in as a guest actor and the creators loved Van so much that they expanded the character, so much so that Lauren you then came in as her older in season two when you and Simone Kessell joined the cast. Now, both of you are dead in present day. [Note: Lottie’s death came earlier in the season, with the mystery of who killed her to be revealed in the finale.] Lauren, when you first came on the show, did you know the full arc and that she would die in season two?

AMBROSE No, I didn’t know. At the beginning of this season, there was a call [with the showrunners] and it was discussed what I was going to do. It was like, “Yeah, the strike, and show business is hard right now… and then we’re gonna kill Van. We want to raise the stakes.” (Laughs) It’s sort of like a last-in-first-out kind of thing with Lottie [and Simone Kessel]. I don’t know what’s going on there, but I feel like the story definitely expanded pretty quickly. It’s probably a better question for the writers, and I’m glad it’s not my problem to solve, but I suppose they want to get back to the sort of thesis of the show.

That’s what I was really interested in: how the trauma was playing on these adult women in their current lives and how that was affecting them, no matter what they were up to. And then, of course, there was this love story with Jasmin/Tawny and Taissa. These two girls are cosmically connected and can only have their love in this wilderness. It was a very different time when they were teenagers in the ‘90s. It was really different for queer kids and gay kids, and so they were able to live more fully as themselves and have a fuller expression of their sexuality in the wilderness. I do lament that a little bit, because I think it would have been interesting to explore this queer woman, middle-aged woman dealing with trauma and how it was when they were in the woods and then when they reconnect, it’s a very different world and a very different time. I feel like an exploration of that could have been really interesting.

Like a Tai/Van spinoff.

AMBROSE Well, that’s true. There are so many storylines spinning that you kind of can’t get to everybody in depth.

Lauren, did you then tell Liv about your fate? Liv, how did you find out?

HEWSON I went and asked directly on my own, because I heard chatter about it. I was like, “Hey, so I’ve heard this is happening,” and I was told, “Yes, it is.” I was really cool and professional about it, just like, “Okay, cool. Totally get it. If you’re open, I’d love to talk about the how and why and all of that.” And then I went home and cried. Because I felt a personal grief in saying goodbye to Van in the present. It was just sad. Once I cried about it, I came back and I was like, “Okay, so can I ask a couple of questions?” The showrunners were very generous with me in talking about where they were taking it and how it was going to happen and when.

AMBROSE In my experience, they didn’t quite know how it was going to happen and when. But that was one of the things that I felt, similar to Liv, very protective of. That’s our job, right? To be the guardian, for a little while, of the character on set. Liv and I had some nice conversations about: let’s do our best to make sure that, in whatever way we can control it, which is not much, that this feels earned. That was the worry, right? We want to protect Van as the guardians of the character.

HEWSON We had some really, really meaningful conversations about that. And the notion of the two of us working together and having scenes together in and around that happening in the story came out of a conversation Lauren and I had. It was Lauren’s idea, initially. It was something we asked for, for a couple of reasons. The framing device of the younger and older counterparts talking to each other already exists as a narrative device in the show, so there was precedent. We thought it would be meaningful for Van and selfishly, we just wanted to work together.

AMBROSE We really wanted to work together. That’s the one thing you don’t get to do, of course. It’s pretty wild, actually, I’ve never had the experience where you’re sharing a character. It was revealed to me when I watched the first episode that I was in and I was like, “Oh, when Liv is on screen, our character is on screen. I am on screen when Liv is on screen.” So it’s really this sharing and, of course, it’s filling in the backstory as you go. So it’s sort of bonkers.

That’s very cool that scenes we see of young and old Van together came out of your conversations.

HEWSON It became this really beautiful piece of the story to me, because it’s the dynamic of Van’s inner child looking after her as she’s going through this really turbulent and horrible experience. It was this lovely meta thing where myself in playing young Van, I’m shepherding Van in the present through this experience, and then I really felt like myself as an actor looking after Van Palmer as the episode was happening. That’s really special to me. I’m so grateful that idea was taken and ran with, and that it became such a big part of how the episode shakes out.

AMBROSE It’s why this character’s become such a favorite of fans, because Liv plays her with such an openness. There’s this sort of ironic, sarcastic humor, but then there’s this bright light of openness and love of the world. I tried to think about what would happen to Van over all these years and what the trauma of it all would do to that bright light, and I thought it might be dulled and hardened, harder on the outside.

I haven’t seen it yet, so I don’t know exactly how the scene ends up, but I know that in that airplane when it was just us two actors, we really had to figure out how to do this kind of mysterious and emotional scene. Like, how are we doing this? But there was this wonderful thing of the anger of the betrayal when my Van says to her, “Why did you send me in there to die, and why is this happening?” All of the anger that maybe we all have of the illusion of control that we have over our own mortality. I mean, we walk around in an illusion of that — as well as an illusion of secure jobs in show business! (Laughs) As Jeff Hiller says on one of my favorite shows Somebody Somewhere, “No one said show business is fair.” (Laughs)

But it turned into this beautiful thing where beautiful, young, hopeful and open Van was bringing along old Van to say, “Soften, soften soften.” I don’t know how they edited it — I haven’t seen it yet and I look forward to seeing it — but we had this moment where there was a big shift in the scene where it works. She cracks her open. I really relish that day on set because it really felt like something happened.

HEWSON Absolutely. It really did feel like that.

In the end of that airplane scene, Lauren, your eyes go wide. I spoke with your director Ben Semanoff, who shared his interpretation of the scene and now I want to hear yours. Are they watching the movie of how Van’s death saves Taissa, or are they looking beyond this life to what’s next in the afterlife?

HEWSON I take less of a literal view. I think there is really intentional ambiguity in the final exchange that we have with each other. The final thing that my Van says to Lauren’s Van is, “Where would be the fun in that?” It’s this sort of acknowledgement that I can’t tell you what happens now. It’s impossible to know what happens now. But even as I leave, I am with you and you’re going to find out; we’re going to find out. My take on the end of that scene is more contained and personal. It’s more about Van talking to herself, and I think it is a really gentle and kind acknowledgement that death is fundamentally unfair and fundamentally unknowable, but that doesn’t mean that there isn’t any fun and that doesn’t mean that you’ll be alone.

AMBROSE You said, “Come on.” That was a big turn of saying: “Take me in, take in what I have to teach you.” Because I was really annoyed with the vision of my younger self when she first shows up. It’s like, “Ugh, this idiot. This annoying…” You think about how you were in high school and maybe you don’t even want to take in the reality of who you were.

HEWSON Even if you didn’t commit horrible acts of violence!

AMBROSE Right, let alone when you might not want to face how far you let things go in the wilderness!

HEWSON That part of it was so poignant for me, too. I loved playing out that dynamic with you, Lauren, of watching Van at that age not wanting to be with herself when she was younger. It’s like, “I don’t want to think about you, get away from me.” And then to play that dance, that push and pull of, “I’m with you no matter what. I’m a part of you. We’re here together. Acknowledge me.”

So then after going through these steps when finding out about Van’s fate — getting to talk about it together, plot it out and then film it together — did it make more sense to you? Have you made peace with it? Did it feel like it’s a satisfying way for Van to go out, to save Tai?

HEWSON When I think about filming it, I think about how Jenna [Burgess], who plays Melissa in the ‘90s timeline, and I went to set when Lauren and Hilary Swank were working together on that scene. Jenna went to talk to Hilary about Melissa and Van’s dynamic in the wilderness, and then I went because I needed to be there. I wanted to be there. So again, there was this special meta layer of Jenna and I watching that happen, and then me watching her death happen knowing that younger Van is watching it happen later in the story, and that we were going to film that a couple of days from then. That’s a really good example of the ways in which this entire experience has been very meta textually loaded for me, and I think for the two of us. And that is just such a unique experience, in my career thus far anyway, and I’m really grateful to have had that.

AMBROSE It was great to have Liv there. I actually brought Liv in the room at one point. I was like “Come on.” It was at this house and the scene is fairly bizarre; the carbon monoxide and the oxygen tank, and I’m on the verge of death and then having some burst of energy where I can haul grown women’s bodies out of the house… It was pretty challenging to parse and figure out how to do it. I was hell bent, though. It was a crazy day, there were so many people around. I said to Hilary Swank, “I’m so glad you’re here. Because I admire your work so much. So let’s figure this out. We’re gonna figure this out together.”

I asked if we could get everybody out of the room and create some space to let something real happen, because I was worried, again, feeling like the guardian of Van, you wanted to feel something real. And, I don’t know, I think Hilary and I really did get to something cool. Again, I don’t know how it’s edited, but I do feel like on the day, something pretty intense happened and I felt personally very good about the work that day and that Liv was there. It just felt like something was crackling in the room.

HEWSON That’s exactly how it felt. It was incredibly powerful watching the two of you figure it out and work together; you are both such amazing actors. Lauren’s right, she came and got me from video village in the garage. She was like, “Come be in here.” So Hilary and Lauren are playing out Melissa killing Van, and I’m off camera in the kitchen. Knowing that I’m watching this as Liv, thinking about everything that had to happen in order to get here, and then knowing I’ll be Van watching it in the plane later. It was a day that was incredibly charged and quite heavy with meaning in so many ways. And so much of that is Lauren. It was Lauren and what she bought to this character and to this story.

I did speak with Hilary Swank about filming your death scene. What I was left with, as a viewer, was Van’s goodness.

AMBROSE I use that word all the time, actually. That’s actually something I said to the showrunners. I was like, “I guess what we’re going after is that Van has this inherent just goodness.” I think that’s the perfect word. I’m glad you got that. I’m glad that reached you.

And it’s unfortunately what gets her killed, it’s what makes her hesitate in the scene, long enough for Melissa (Swank) to switch the knife and use it on her. When they called “cut” on that scene, and now knowing that Liv was there on the day, what was that like Lauren?

AMBROSE We actually got to shoot the plane scene as the very last scene, so that was great. The day [of the death scene] was just a relief to be over, because we were covered in blood and sticky knives and it was so weird and long. (Laughs) But yes, I do think we got to the place where something cool happened. But it was beautiful that we actually got to do the last scenes on the very last day. And after they said “cut,” the crew was so lovely to give me a nice moment of appreciation. The curtain came down and Liv and I got to take a little bow together as the character.

As actors, you have these jobs and you go job to job. You run around and the story is what it is, and it might be good and it might work and it might not and everything, but what my treasure is was working in the adult timeline with all those amazing women my age. I’ve never had an experience like that, working with people where we would typically be auditioning for the same roles. We got to work as colleagues and talk about being working mothers and all the things. And to have that time with Liv walking in [Vancouver’s] Stanley Park, talking about Van, when we walked like 20 miles! Or taking that bow together and the feeling of satisfaction that we felt. Again, we’re in so little control of it, but we know we told our part of the story as well as we could, and we brought our fullest selves. That’s my treasure that I leave with and that’s why I do this work, and why it’s satisfying to have been a part of it.

HEWSON Those are the experiences of sharing this character with Lauren that I keep very close to me. It’s something I could never have imagined when I first started this job. I knew that Van was special to me; characters like her don’t come around all that often. But I certainly could never have imagined the extent to which she’s grown and developed, and to have Lauren here and to share this character with her has been such a meaningful experience. I’m going to be proud of that and grateful for it forever.

Lauren, any thoughts or hopes to come back and haunt in a potential season four, and that perhaps we haven’t seen the last of you on Yellowjackets?

AMBROSE Gee, I don’t have any particular thoughts about that.

Would you be interested if the right story came along?

AMBROSE I don’t know. I don’t know. We’ll just leave that all as a big show-business mystery.

Liv, have you begun to think about how you will keep Lauren with you when you start the trek alone again as Van, assuming the show returns for season four? [Note: Paramount+ has not yet renewed Yellowjackets for season four.]

HEWSON Lauren has always said this beautiful thing. She’s said to me a few times, “I’m just giving her back to you,” which I think is really special.

AMBROSE That was the feeling on set: “This is fitting.” Liv started this beautiful character, created something out of basically nothing. She had some cool scenes and made the absolute most of it. And, I don’t know if everybody knows this, but Liv was also improvising and often writing much of their own dialogue and really made this character into something that then became a viable person for me to come and inhabit as an adult character. So on that day when we took our little bow together, it felt very fitting that they started it, I continued it and now I hand it back to you.

HEWSON A real a real gift for me is that Lauren’s performance is such a clear roadmap of where this character goes. From a technical perspective, I am really fascinated to be able to sketch A to B some more. Because Lauren’s right that when Van is older, there is a real like armoring and hardening and sort of dampening of this light that she has as a younger person. I’m excited to grow into the Van that we meet as Lauren has played her, and the connection between those two halves of this person is work that continues to be very special to me.

AMBROSE Basically I’ll continue to haunt Liv, whether I’m there or not! I can haunt you by text message (Laughs) But really, Van doesn’t go. And perhaps it’s satisfying to know what happens.

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Yellowjackets season three releases its finale Friday, April 11, on Paramount+, with a linear airing Sunday at 8 p.m. on Showtime. Follow along with THR‘s season coverage and interviews.